Vodka Dosing

[tbone74]

I want to start dosing vodka because I just cant get my sps to take off. I am currently running GFO anf a suflur biodenitrator. My nitrate is about .25 and my phosphate is undectable with Salifert test kits. I think there is something going on though because I am getting a little brown diatoms on my sand. I anve read the article in reefkeeping mag and this looks promising

I have a couple questions before I start.

1. Do I stop using GFO and the denitrator? if so when?
2. How often do I test for nitrate and phosphate while I am waiting to determine my maintence dose?
3. Once it's up and running, what if I go on vacation for say 7 days? Is all lost?

any help would great! Thanks :cool:

[iap]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

I was told you can take the gfo offline as soon as you begin to dose vodka. I would test at the end of the time period. Say you dose the first amount for 4 days, I'd test on day 4. If no change up the dose that they recommend and test again after the time frame given until you see the change then cut your dose in half and use that.

I saw someone ask the question about going on vacation. They were told they can either setup a dosing pump to dose the amount needed or have someone do it or just let it go without and start back where you left off before vacation it shouldn't hurt anything.

That's just my advice on testing because that is how I did it and it worked. And with your diatoms on the sand could it be a flow issue. I had those too and rearanged my powerheads and it's helped. And as far as the gfo, I still run mine. But like i said some people say it's not needed.

[tbone74]

Thanks Iap. I have already read that article and it doesn't answer my questions. Only about the GFO it says its counterproductive but in the next sentence it says people still use GFO..I was also wanting to get some input from people using it

[iap]

If I were you tho I'd go ahead and get some of those new vodka pellets. You just add it to you reactor. Remove your gfo. And you are set. No need to dose daily and keep a log of your dosing regimine. Once they start to carry them at online stores I'm most def going to get some. Makes life a lot easier. Well if they work and supposedly they do.

And sorry for posting the website again. Later I realized you said you already read it. Hehe sorry.

[tbone74]

Do those pellets have a long life span or am I going to be blowing tons of money replacing those every month or so??

[tomgl]

Do those pellets have a long life span or am I going to be blowing tons of money replacing those every month or so??Thats a good question. I think Justin has just set this up on his new tank. Hopefully he can shed some light on the pellet questions. If this works I would like to swap gfo for the pellets.

[Justintaylor62]

PM Lee, or hopefully he'll jump on here and answer some of these questions. Cause I know that he has been dosing in his tank and loves it. Tank looks fantastic, and he's primarily all SPS as well.

[tbone74]

Bump. Does anyone have any more input?? I was hoping for the almighty troylee to chime in!! I'm on my third day and I have already noticed a change in my skimmate.

[Troylee]

Thanks Iap. I have already read that article and it doesn't answer my questions. Only about the GFO it says its counterproductive but in the next sentence it says people still use GFO..I was also wanting to get some input from people using it

i ran gfo for a couple months and dosed vodka as well.... once i got a hanna to test my po4 accuratley i pulled the gfo to see if it would rise and it didnt..... now i have a small bioload for my tank.... my system has about 220gal of water and i have 12 fish 3 med size tangs and the rest are chromis and clowns all tiny..... with that said when i start adding more fish i will have to adjust my vodka dosing or run gfo.... i dont think i will ever run the pellets or gfo to be honest.... vodka works great and is cheaper than any thing out there.... a 12$ bottle will last a year!!!! cant beat that....;)

[Narazbad]

Lee, can you throw your charts for dosing back up? I haven't seen them since the move.

[Troylee]

Ya when I get to a desk top I can... Make sure to read my sticky about ulns that is one of the best articles out there on the subject.... With tons of q&a

[bigronbo]

where is the sticky lee? what section?

[tbone74]

Advanced reefing I believe

[Troylee]

^^^^^+1
it's in this forum

[tbone74]

So I've been dosing for 2 weeks and I am up to 2.5 ml per day. I just tested for nitrate and it has gone down from .25 ppm to 0 (with a salifert kit) in 5 days. My po4 has always been undetectable again with salifert, (I know I need to spring for a Hanna) so I cant tell if that has gone down....I is possible that in the matter of 13 days that I am already there?? If so do I keep increasing .ml weekly until I see an algae bloom and then cut my dose in half (maintenance dose?) and just dose that??

I was running a sulfur denitrator and removed that from the system 4 days into the dosing, so I think I already had denitratifying bacteria?? Please help me out vodka dosers!! I would hate to screw something up and have my tank crash!! Oh yea, my total water volume is an estimated 250gl

Thanks :)

[spslover]

hmm at a 100 gallon I did the same as you I got my brown algea at 1ml it is all gone now and I am at .95 ml dosing.

I heard it also matters and how strong of a vodka you are using. I am using sky vodka as that's what I had in the house. At .95ml I'm at 0 phos. 0 nitrate and nitrite. No more algae... Never had any until I started but when I went down on dose it's all gone. Corals are much brighter now in color. This is the way I did it and all is well.

I would stay where you are at and either get a hanna or borrow one for now. My honest 2 cents.

[Troylee]

So I've been dosing for 2 weeks and I am up to 2.5 ml per day. I just tested for nitrate and it has gone down from .25 ppm to 0 (with a salifert kit) in 5 days. My po4 has always been undetectable again with salifert, (I know I need to spring for a Hanna) so I cant tell if that has gone down....I is possible that in the matter of 13 days that I am already there?? If so do I keep increasing .ml weekly until I see an algae bloom and then cut my dose in half (maintenance dose?) and just dose that??

I was running a sulfur denitrator and removed that from the system 4 days into the dosing, so I think I already had denitratifying bacteria?? Please help me out vodka dosers!! I would hate to screw something up and have my tank crash!! Oh yea, my total water volume is an estimated 250gl

Thanks :)

drop to half which is 1.3 or so and use that for a week and test again.... never wait for algae that means you are over doing it...... once 0's are accomplished you cut the number in half and that should give you your maintence dose....it may have to be adjusted accordingly but it's a good start anyways....

[tbone74]

So I bought a Aqua medic reefdoser and I want to dose the vodka automaticly. My maintenance dose is about 1.5 to 1.3 and with the reefdoser thats about 2 seconds run time. Its hit or miss too because of air bubbles that back up into the tip of the hose.

Can I dilute the vodka with RODI and dose with a longer run time?? Say, For example, I take 1 quart of 80 proof and dilute it with 3 quarts of water for a total of 1 gal. Now I can dose with the pump for 8 seconds per day, this would give more room for error. What do you guys think?

Oh yea, my algae problem is almost gone, polyp extension is sick, and the corals are really coloring up. I have seen more growth in my acro's in the past two weeks than I've seen in the past two months!!

Thanks for everyone's input!:D :D :D

[Narazbad]

Wow, I REALLY need to find a way to get a skimmer in my tank....I think that's my project for the day.

[TheGreatAukSociety]

How about putting it in with your top off water?

[tbone74]

I thought of that but I'm concerned that the top off is not alway's constant due to changes in temperature and humidity. I have the doser already and I know that will be the same dose every day. I have diluted the vodka already and have not seen any ill effects over the last few days.....

[tbone74]

My water now has a milky tint to it. Fish and corals are fine. I also noticed a transparrent film around a powerhead..... Is this the bacterial film mentioned in reefkeeping article? Shouild I skip a day of dosing and then continue with just a little less vodka? I also have brown diatoms on my sandbed.

thanks for any help!

[Troylee]

Sounds like a bacteria bloom.... I would cut the dose down.....

[tbone74]

Just got my hanna meter and my phosphates are 0!!! I'm a little confused though cause I still have some algae on the sandbed....:confused:

[RickMartin]

Thats why phosphate tests are next to useless. Algae can consume phosphates as soon as it breaks down giving you 0 readings. The use of carbon fuel a bacteria that out competes the algae. Additionally phosphates bind to calcium carbonate surfaces in both sand and live rock. As the phosphate level lowers in the water the rocks/sand will start releasing it to reach an equilibrium.

[tbone74]

So do I just have to wait a little while and it will clear up on its own, as the rock and sand release it and the bacteria consumes it eventually reaching an equilibrium of 0? or am I missing something?

[RickMartin]

Normally yes, thats how it works.
With carbon dosing I am not sure. I remember something about a nitrate to phosphate ratio the bacteria need. And while bacteria may consume it, it is not necessarily exporting it. Bacteria has a life span measured in hours and days. As the bacteria dies then it releases the nutrients back into the system and is probably consumed by new bacteria. It is possible that some of these nutrients are exported via the skimmer with the dead bacteria. But so far no one has bothered to test it. And if that were the case then you should be able to slowly reduce the level of carbon you are dosing until you are adding none.

[smellslikefish]

Survey from CORAL magazine

Roughly two out of three CORAL readers are experimenting with carbon dosing, probiotic methods, and zeolite filtration or want to know more about these new and sometimes controversial approaches to lowering dissolved nutrient levels in their reef aquariums.

Last week's Probiotics Survey found that 64% of CORAL respondents have seen reduced growth of nuisance algae with the use of probiotic methods, while about 55% believe they have observed better coral coloration and better coral growth. Others are skeptical and think that the jury is still out on these approaches.

Answers to "How would you rate the results you have achieved with these probiotic methods?"


Bacteria Dosing: Great/Good: 63% Mixed/Poor: 25% Jury still out: 12%
Vodka Dosing: Great/Good: 59% Mixed/Poor: 28% Jury still out: 13%

Zeolites: Great/Good: 51% Mixed/Poor: 24% Jury still out: 24%
Liquid Carbon: Great/Good: 41% Mixed/Poor: 26% Jury still out: 32%
Carbon Pellets: Great/Good: 35% Mixed/Poor: 27% Jury still out: 38%


Do you think probiotics and carbon dosing will become standard in reefkeeping in the future??


Yes: 50.0%
Not sure: 43.2%

No: 6.7%


Comments:

"This is a great topic to cover, but be sure to include plenty of info about the mineral supplementation that goes hand in hand with the use of zeolites. I use zeolites and have had great success with them, but part of me wonders if the improved growth and coloration comes more from the additions of potassium, iodine and other trace/minor elements that you are supposed to do in conjunction with the bacteria/carbon dosing."


"'Ultra-Low-Nutrient' is in itself a misnomer. It should be called 'Faster Nutrient Cycling.'"

"I use Jack Daniels Dosing. I don't like vodka, and the corals will be drinking what I drink."

In the September/October issue of CORAL, Dallas aquarist Murray Camp will take a serious look at probiotics, carbon dosing, and the use of zeolites, and talks about his own successes and problems with these new techniques.

"These methodologies are also criticized as being 'unnatural,'" says Camp. "The fact that we pull marine organisms off a reef and stick them in a glass box with artificial seawater makes that entire philosophical discussion pointless in my view. The real issue is what we can do to create a captive environment that maximizes the health of the inhabitants."

ADD YOUR INPUT: Take the CORAL Probiotics & Carbon Dosing Survey Now...

[tbone74]

What is your opinion??

[bluereefaquatics]

I still have some mixed feeling on dosing vodka and have never tried it myself. I do like the dosing of benificial bacteria. I think we need to find the problem for high nitrates or algea outbreaks and try to cure the problem before dosing anything though.

[tbone74]

I have been dosing for a while now and I havew gotten some hair alage. My nitrates are 0 and my phos is 0 (hanna and salifert, I know......) Does an overdose cause the alage or am I not dosing enough?? I am dosing .3 ml daily in a 240 with med/high fish load, sps lps and softies. BTW the sps are growing like crazy!! Your input would be really appreciated!!
Thanks in advance.

[fishman]

Everything is going good and only side effect is alittle hair alage? Did your acros color up more over time with dosing?

[Troylee]

Sounds like your not dosing enough.... Most likely the algae is consuming the nitrates and po4 and giving you 0 readings...

[tbone74]

Everything is going good and only side effect is alittle hair alage? Did your acros color up more over time with dosing?

I have seen huge improvements in coloration. That being said my tank was in sorry shape when I started dosing. All my sps were brown. After a couple weeks they all started to show more color and an explosion in growth

[tbone74]

Sounds like your not dosing enough.... Most likely the algae is consuming the nitrates and po4 and giving you 0 readings...

Thanks for the input Lee, Ill increase the dose and see what happens

[fishman]

nice cool deal tony u got any pics?

[tbone74]

Here's a couple....