Any place in the Vegas area to get a tank drilled?

[SouthBayPhoto]

Hey all,

The 135 gal tank I'm looking at tomorrow isn't drilled for overflow drain/return lines. If I end up getting it, I was wondering if there is any REPUTABLE shop around the Vegas area that could 1) check to see if the bottom glass is tempered glass and 2) if it's not tempered glass, can PROPERLY drill the holes for the bulkheads for the drain and return lines? I definitely don't want to take it to someone that doesn't know what they are doing (ESPECIALLY testing for tempered glass - we all know how that will end up if they are wrong).

I would much rather have overflow drain/return line holes drilled, if possible, than use a HOB siphon overflow box.

The only other question I would have is, if this is possible, should I have just two drain holes drilled in the bottom and then run 2 return lines over the back or should I have 2 drain holes and 2 return holes drilled (4 holes total) and run it all inside? Also, where should I have them drilled at? Two in each back corner or all four in the back center of the tank? (it's a 6 foot long x 18" wide x 24" tall tank) Also, how big should each hole be for a 135 gallon tank? Or would an experienced shop already know what size each hole should be?

From my understanding, I can buy the black acrylic that they normally use in "reef ready" tanks for the overflow box (or boxes if one in each back corner) and install it myself with aquarium silicone.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[kentlighting]

I can't speak for a place that I know does that. But glassholes.com has kits for returns and overflows that go threw the back glass vs the bottom so you can eliminate the tempered issue.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.293177,-115.293136
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[lerchcon]

bump.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Will - Thanks for the info. I found out the site is www.glass-holes.com The only problem is, I don't trust myself cutting the glass myself. I don't want to take that chance. If it comes down to it, I may consider this as an option if I have issues with a HOB siphon overflow box. That's why I'd rather have a reputable place do it. Either A) a place that makes tanks here in Vegas and that is use to cutting holes for "reef ready" tanks. (my preference) or B) a glass shop that is used to cutting glass and really knows what they are doing. Only problem with that is, I would probably have to tell them what size holes to cut and where exactly to cut them so that the bulkheads fit properly. That's why I'd rather have an aquarium shop do it that builds tanks because they would know the hole sizes and normal locations to put them at.

Now, I don't know if this is going to be an advantage or not, but if I end up getting this tank, the guy said the tank is an "old school" tank with thick glass (it almost looks like 1/2" glass in the pictures). So, I don't know if that means the bottom would not be tempered or not. I don't know if older tanks usually didn't temper the glass or if they did temper the glass or if it's just a **** shoot either way. Of course I would definitely have it tested by someone that knows what they are doing though, because I wouldn't want to just take the chance on it without being tested.

[SouthBayPhoto]

As a side note, I just sent an email to Trop Aquarium through their site to see if they do that type of work. I know they do a lot of custom stand/canopy work and I think even some tank building, so hopefully that means they could do this type of work. We'll see if they get back to me about it. If not, I'll try and call them in a couple of days. I'll try and give them time to respond. However, if someone else thinks or knows of any other place around Vegas, please let me know so I can contact them. I'm just praying it won't be too darn expensive. :eek:

I also just sent an email to Tanks A Lot through their site too. I know they dealt a lot in tanks too, but I don't know if they do anything "on site". So, they may have to send it out or something. That might be the same with Trop Aquarium for all I know. Again, these were just two places that came to mind at 1:24 in the morning. LOL Again, if anyone else knows of any other places, please feel free to speak up. :D

[five O]

Aquatic Empire would prop be your best bet

[SouthBayPhoto]

Thanks, five O! I'll send them a message through their site right now. :D

[iap]

Tanks a lot is out of business

[Troylee]

If there is no sticker saying what's tempered or not no one can tell.... Drilling glass tanks is always a risk for that reason and no one will cover it if it breaks... If you know the manufacturer and model you can try calling them and ask it's your best bet... If not your guess is good as Anyones if it's tempered or not "no way possible to tell" hth

[couch702]

I think there is someone on here that has experience drilling tanks. I can't remember who it is though. But go to aquaic empires and talk to Dennis. He should be able to lead u in the right direction.

[tbone74]

Drilling a tank is very easy, but as troylee said if it's tempered it's a no go. I read somewhere that if you look at the glass through 2 polarized lenses you can see a pattern in the glass if it is tempered. I have never tried this so don't take my word for it. I think AE drills tanks.

[SouthBayPhoto]

I didn't know Tanks A Lot was closed. Their site was still up, so that's why I thought I'd try. Thanks for letting me know. :)

I was told by someone else that glass companies usually have a device they can use to check the glass and it will tell them if it's tempered or not. I guess I can call around to a couple of glass companies to find out if that's true or not. Unfortunately, with it being a used tank, I'll bet the person doesn't know who the manufacturer of the tank was/is and especially what the model number is. I'll try and ask, just in case.

Well, I sent an email to Aquatic Empires via their site last night, so hopefully someone gets back with me. If not, I will call them and ask for Dennis in a couple of days. I figured I'd give them time to respond to my email. :) I don't need to do this right this minute anyway, so it's all good.

The reason I don't drill the glass is because I'm afraid of putting too much pressure on it and shattering it myself and all that. That's why I'd rather have someone that has true experience do it. I know there is no guarantees and even a pro can break it, but their chances are probably less than mine breaking it.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Well...I just found these two links about finding out if a sheet of glass (any sheet of glass) is tempered. The first one actually involves an aquarium and the second is just a general piece of glass. I thought I'd share. :) So, I guess if I get the tank, I'd be able to find out myself if it's tempered or not. However, I don't know if I have a pair of "polarized" sunglasses in the house though, but I'm sure I could do the laptop trick as we have two of them. :D

http://www.salt-city.org/showthread.php?9542-How-to-tell-if-glass-is-tempered.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070302000201AAR8WI3

Hope this info helps others as well. :)

[BoBo65]

thats funny you made this thread because I was just getting on here to post something similar up.... does any one have or no any one that has a drill press attachment http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/review/product/list/id/1276/category/169/ I figured Id just buy the glass cutting drill bit and drill my 75 myself ;)

[Luke]

you really shouldnt need that...

[Luke]

heres a couple good tutorials/videos...

theres a bunch more on youtube...

pretty much go slow and keep water on it


edit:

guess it helps if i include the link haha

http://reefercentral.com/Videos.html

[BoBo65]

c now I have seen those vids before i just really dont want to slip and scrath/ mess up the tank :-/

[SouthBayPhoto]

I'm not so worried about slipping and scratching up the tank so much; especially if you go slow. What I'm worried about is putting too much pressure on the drill and the glass and cracking or shattering it. That's what I'd be afraid of by doing it myself. Normally I consider myself a handyman and I'm definitely mechanically inclined, but sometimes when it comes to stuff like this, there is a reason to go to a pro. (for me in this instance, anyway)

[tbone74]

just double stick tape some wood and use it to steady the bit
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/tbone219/Pump%20Swap/Drilling1.jpg

Back the hole with duct tape
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/tbone219/Pump%20Swap/Drilling2.jpg

Put some water on the surface and start slow
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/tbone219/Pump%20Swap/Drilling3.jpg

Hole's done! easy money
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/tbone219/Pump%20Swap/Drilling4.jpg

[vegastyle]

Nice technique !

[SouthBayPhoto]

Tbone - Nice pics and walk through of how it's done. How much pressure do you put on the drill/bit while you are drilling? Plus, how much water do you need to have running over the area you are drilling? Would it suffice to just have a garden hose turned on and constantly running water over the area? What speed would you normally run the drill at? (percentage wise of full power - button pushed in all the way on the drill) I'm also guessing you used a normal grease pencil to mark the glass around the drill bit itself?

Sorry for all of the questions, but if I end up thinking about doing this myself, it might be good to know. ;)

[Luke]

when i did mine, i pretty much let the weight of the drill do do the work... started out at a slow speed, once i got a groove into the glass i sped it up quite a bit. I also duct taped the backside, i was afraid of the glass dropping and breaking the back pane haha... and we I just kept the hose going on it the whole time

[tomgl]

when i did mine, i pretty much let the weight of the drill do do the work... started out at a slow speed, once i got a groove into the glass i sped it up quite a bit. I also duct taped the backside, i was afraid of the glass dropping and breaking the back pane haha... and we I just kept the hose going on it the whole time

You are the holder of the magic shell correct? I seem to remember water on a floor?

[Luke]

lol that wasn't a drilling issue! it was an overtightened bulkhead issue!

I had to drill my 2nd tank, because the first tank i got(pre drilled) i cracked with the over tightened bulkhead

but yes i have a magical seashell if anyone wants it.

[tbone74]

Medium sped and light pressure. I didnt use the hose, just had a glass of water there and dumped a little on there now and again. I marked the glass with a sharpie

[SouthBayPhoto]

I would probably put a pillow on the bottom pane of glass so that the circle of glass didn't fall and hit the other glass. Then again, I'd be doing this to the bottom of my tank (if I verify it is NOT tempered glass), so in reality, I would have the top of the tank facing down, so most likely the piece of glass would fall to the floor. However, I would still duct tape it as Tbone recommended. Only problem is, if I do this, 1) I would have to know what size bulkheads I need to put in there and thus, what size holes to drill 2) How many holes I'm going to drill total (2 - One drain/One return or 4 - Two drains/Two returns) and 3) Where am I going to put the holes at. Basically, where is the best place to put the holes at for the bulkheads?

I've seen pictures where there are two in each rear corner of the tank (one drain/one return per corner) and I've also seen tanks with all four in the rear center of the tank. So, I'm not sure which way is best to go and if so, is there any drawings out there that I can follow so that I don't put them in the wrong place and end up having them too close to the rear glass so then I can't install the bulkhead or can't install the Durso tube on the top end. Plus, I would need to buy the black acrylic plastic to create an overflow box within the tank itself. Does any of the shops around here carry that stuff? I figured if they carried one that was "pre-made", then I could use that for my dimensions and drill holes accordingly.

The good thing is, if this tank that I'm going to see tomorrow does NOT have tempered glass in the bottom, then it's really up to me on where I want to put my bulkheads for my drain/returns. So, if there is a "ultimate" or "perfect" position for an overflow box(es) for a 135 gal tank? I kept a lot of my old links from years ago and was reviewing them and they were talking about overall linear overflow space and more was better. Like if you had two overflow boxes (one in each rear corner) and they were 6" wide by 6" deep, then you would have 24 linear inches of overflow space in your tank (both boxes are 12 linear inches each). However, they said if you had an 18" linear overflow along the middle of the back wall that stuck out at angles of 6" on each side, then you would have 32 linear inches of overflow space and thus it was better overall because it skimmed more water into your overflow box because of the bigger amount of linear space. It makes sense. Soooooo, that's why I've been playing around with the idea of having one bigger box in the center rear of the tank Almost like this:

\__________/ Think of that in the rear center of the tank. I'm sure most of you know what I mean and have seen it. However, it also suggested to have at least 2 drains, in case one of them gets plugged. So, if I end up drilling 4 holes (2 drains/2 returns), then how big does my overflow box have to be to accommodate 4 standpipes? Plus, how big (diameter) do the standpipes have to be? That makes a difference because that will determine how big the bulkheads are and thus the holes I drill. I also read that having more than one drain also helps minimize the noise as well. I don't know if that's correct, but that's my understanding.

In short (ya, doesn't seem like a short post, does it????), where would I get this type of information from? Would I try and look up tank builders around the country and see if they posted their dimensions online that I could copy?

Please don't get sick of me already...I'm just kind of spitballing here and especially since I've never built something like this from scratch. I'm just wondering what you guys/girls would do if you were going to have to do this yourself. (take a plain tank and drill it to make it reef ready)

If anyone is interested in seeing the link on where I was obtaining some of this information, feel free to ask and I'd be happy to post it up. Just wasn't sure if I should or not. :-)

Thanks again!
Mat

PS Tony - Does the sharpie wipe off the glass when you're done? I'd hate to do it and then find out I have 4 circles on the bottom of my tank because I couldn't get the sharpie off the glass. LOL!!!!!

[Narazbad]

The sharpie will be covered by the bulkheads, so no worries there. Your best bet is to go by a lfs and talk to them about what you want with the tank and your plans so far. I know dennis at ae has done several tanks and designed several custom jobs, so he would be a good one to talk to.

[tbone74]

Sharpies wipe off with vinegar. I always leave notes on my tank with them. Use duct tape not to keep the glass from falling but to "back up the cut" to keep the edges from chipping. Glassholes.com has entire kits overflows, bulkheads, and drills. Very nice guys to deal with and shipping is free over $25 and FAST. Plus they always send a little candy with their packages :)

[Aquatic Empires]

Hi Mat. i replied to your email and will be happy to answer any questions. please give me a call at the store at noon on Friday.

[SouthBayPhoto]

I appreciate everyone's input on this. :) Dennis, was good speaking to you this evening, but we'll talk more soon about a type of setup. :)

[SouthBayPhoto]

Oh, I also forgot to tell everyone...the laptop/LCD trick works for determining if a piece of glass is tempered or not. It's pretty cool. :) I was even able to do it with my cellphone (BlackBerry). All I did was put on a pair of polarized sunglasses, open up a white screen on your cellphone and put the cellphone behind the glass. Keep your head/glasses straight while you look through the glass and if you turn your cellphone at a 45* angle (left or right, depends on the screen), you will see one of two things. Either A) it will just get really dark with NO lines or streaks on the screen. If so, then it's NON-TEMPERED glass or B) it will get darker, but you will see dark "bars" or streaks on the white screen. If so, then it is TEMPERED glass.

To make sure it worked, I first tried it on a car's side window (always TEMPERED glass, by law) and I could see the bars (they were vertical) on the screen. Even when you moved it around the glass, but kept your head straight and the cellphone at a 45* angle, you could see the bars all over the window. I then tried the same thing on the front windshield (NON-TEMPERED glass, but safety glass) and there were no bars at all. Just a dark screen if you held the cell phone at a consistent angle.

Anyway, I thought it was a darn cool trick and only took a few minutes for me to determine the tank I was looking at (135 gal) did NOT have tempered glass on the bottom (or sides for that matter). Unfortunately, the seller and I couldn't come to an understanding on the amount, so I'm still looking at this point. :(

[Luke]

I thought windshields were tempered?


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[SouthBayPhoto]

Luke - Nope...windshields are made of safety glass, but actually they aren't tempered. They use two sheets of glass with plastic between them. This is so the pieces won't shatter and fly into the faces of the passengers. However, side windows are tempered, so they can shatter and fly across the vehicle when struck because there is no plastic within them to keep the pieces at bay.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Dennis @ AE - I'm working on a plan for the overflow and might even look into doing a coast to coast/BeanAnimal overflow setup. Once I know how big and where the holes need to go, I'll talk to you about when I can bring in the tank and have it drilled by you. :) One thing I have to figure out is where to get a piece of black acrylic for the entire back of the tank to create that overflow. Again, not sure yet what I'm going to do, but I'll let you know when I get that far. LOL

[hebsway]

I use welch's on DI and valley view for acrylic.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Hebsway - Thanks for the info. :) I always like more than one option in case it's necessary. :)

[seanathen]

Mat, if you plan to make your own overflow, I can get you the acrylic. PM me...

[five O]

Here's a few pictures of the coast 2 coast / Bean Animal over flow I built on my old tank. It worked flawless. I had a piece of black acylic on the front of the overflow so you did not have to look at pipes. It was pretty simple build. The back of the tank was just painted black. I hoped this helped out. The main part, it will never overflow, and runs completely silent. The only thing I would do different is use a gate valve instead of a ball valve on the full syphon, and just use 90's coming out the bulkheads on the emergency and the full syphon. You only need the capped PVC on the Dorso pipe. Just FYI the fourth hole was for the return.

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/1-2.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/2-2.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/3-2.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/4-2.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/5-2.jpg

[five O]

Here is few more of my current tank. This is the same concept, just a external over flow as opposed to a internal. I ended up drilling a third hole and set it up just like the previous.

And Yes, This is a Lee built tank. Lee is the MAN. He hooked it up big time on the bad boy.
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/087.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/088.jpg
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z322/phat1eye/089.jpg

[SouthBayPhoto]

Five O - Thanks for the pics. That does help a lot. :) Only thing I'll probably do differently is that I'd like to run my drain/return lines through the bottom of my tank instead of out the back. So, ultimately that means my "overflow box" that I'd create would have to go all the way down to the bottom. By any chance do you remember how deep (in inches from the rear of the tank to the front of your built overflow box) your overflow box was? If I don't have to go real deep (I'm hoping less than 6"), then I might not mind at all. I'm just worried about it being like 6" deep and thus turning my 18" deep tank into a 12" deep tank. :(

[five O]

You cant run returns through the bottom, If you have a power failure, the tank will drain. Check valves dont work!! Your returns have to come up near the surface and have a syphon break. I know the bottom would be cool, but it wont work. You can have a closed loop, if you must have returns on the bottom, but thats a whole nother discussion. Here's a link to a smaller set up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1LbqLR4Ewc&NR=1

[Narazbad]

You can run holes through the bottom, but you will need stand pipes.

[SouthBayPhoto]

You cant run returns through the bottom, If you have a power failure, the tank will drain. Check valves dont work!! Your returns have to come up near the surface and have a syphon break. I know the bottom would be cool, but it wont work. You can have a closed loop, if you must have returns on the bottom, but thats a whole nother discussion. Here's a link to a smaller set up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1LbqLR4Ewc&NR=1

Ok, I'm confused then. I even went to Trop Aquarium the other day and one of their main reef tanks (in the middle of the salt section) had two return lines plumbed from the bottom (plus one HUGE drain line - I took pics on my phone), up through the overflow box and then had two linelocs (I think that's what they are called) come out of the sides of the overflow box for flow back into the tank.

Plus, I have seen other pictures of people having these lineloc's come out of the overflow box and a directional head put on them. So, are they all doing it wrong and taking a chance or ???

I can understand what you're saying, though. When I built my 90 and had the return lines come up the back and over the top, I did drill a small hole in each just below the main waterline to break siphon when power was turned off and the tank drained into the sump. I was just trying to make my setup look a bit nicer and figured that if I ran the return lines on the inside of the overflow box and then drilled my overflow box and put a bulkhead in and attached these lineloc's, that the setup would look nicer and cleaner.

This is why I'm doing all this research to find out what I should do and what I shouldn't do. :)

[SouthBayPhoto]

I just watched the Youtube video. That is one the considerations I'm thinking of doing; BeanAnimal's coast to coast setup. However, I actually wrote him and asked him if it's possible to do this setup through the bottom instead of out the back. Everyone I've seen has it through the back and not out the bottom of the tank. I don't see why it wouldn't work out the bottom, but I wanted to ask first. Plus, I asked him how shallow I could make the overflow box and still have it work and be effective.

Plus, I thought I remember people posting up that they were having issues about the lighting with a coast to coast overflow setup? That it was blocking the light, so the back of their tank wasn't getting any or enough light. That's also why I'm considering putting an entire piece of acrylic in the tank as the overflow (from top to bottom & side to side), so when I set up my aquascape, it would all be in front of the overflow and won't have any "shadowing" light issues. Then again, I may get light issues just from the giant piece of black acrylic being there as the overflow wall. I don't know. I also have NO CLUE what type of lighting system I'm going to get and that will fit into the canopy. However, what would stink with this type of setup (full overflow box) is that I would lose a lot of my display depth to work with since my tank is only 18" deep. If this setup has to be 6" deep, then I'm reduced to only 12" of "show" depth in the tank. :(