Interesting issue

[kentlighting]

So July 4th I added a nice size bunch of grape culerpa to my fuge. Since them my ph dropped from 8.2-3 to as low 7.70. I've been dosing ph+ from brightwell and have done a couple of water changes but the highest i can get my ph is 7.9 I read that adding a large amount of macro algae at once can drop the ph so I removed half of the bunch in my fuge. Today I noticed that some kind of clear sime has grown on my filter sock so dense that the water wouldn't go threw and ran over the top of the sock. What is going on?!?!
Nazarbad and I have checked my levels everything seems fine and In line except for the ph.......


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[TheGreatAukSociety]

Probably some die off in the algae.

Have the refugium light on the opposite as the main tank, raise the Alkalinity to like 12 dkh with a product like Seachem ReefBuilder.

In my big reef tank, the pH in the day is up to 8.3-4 and at night down to 8.0-7.9, so the time you measure is very important. I just shoot to keep it above 8 at night.

You can also add Kalk but that's a whole project there.

[Narazbad]

Kent, if you need you can borrow my kalk adder. Or I can give you the stuff to make your own. I never thought about adding kalk....

[kentlighting]

ive never added kalk before and delt with it, fill me in and how it works what i should look out for with it

[iap]

Just add 2 teaspoons for each gallon to your top off water. Just get pickling lime from walmart. Easy as that

[spslover]

hey iap I got a question for you on that.

with pickling lime I thought you were suppose to drip it and before you do youe suppose to alow the pickling lime settle on the bottom and not put that into your tank. Is it ok to just mix it into your top off water and throw it all in?

[iap]

Not how I was told. I just add the powder to my trashcan and have my aqualifter line from my ATO in it and it drips/tops off my evaporate water.

I saw a post where you had mentioned mixing the kalk then sucking water out of that for use and thought it was odd. But no I don't go that route just add and it settles on it own. And I have no problems with it. Whatever that is worth ;)

[lvsuckerfish]

be very careful with adding Kalk to a tank you can cause a crash. you do want to mix kalk according to live stock little to know stoneys you do not want to mix a lot of kalk and add to the system you also want to add unless with a ato (auto top off) drip method. and add during the night (meaning lights off) when the Ph will be at it's lowest. adding too much kalk will raise your Ph to high and you will need to do alot of water changes to lower it down. reason for ATO or drip method. you can add a teaspoon per gallon of clean Rodi water mix the container and let it sit over night you do not want the white saturated bottom in the tank because if it gets on corals it will kill them. it will burn the coral if just little spects get on there with out being washed away fast. the kalk stirrer is used for most cases I use one it mixes the kalk 10 mins a day in the reactor then the ATO has 2 set times to add water to the display 6 hrs after the mixing is complete and also just before the kalk stirrer is set to mix the kalk. in the stirrer you can add more kalk I add 3 cups to mine so I do not have to mess with it so much. you can either make your own reactor drip method or buy a Kent doser to drip the kalk in the tank but best to do it over the duration of a night. there was one person on the fourm that added fresh mixed kalk and crashed her tank. and also informed her friend to do the same and killed her friends live stock as well. most tank crashes will be because of kalk over doses.

heavy sps 1 table spoon per gallon in a larger tank , water volume does also count. you do not want to add 1 table spoon for a 20 gallon tank and let it drip all night..... usually I let mine drip with the drip method 1 drop per 3 seconds.

to make a drop container you will need the following

1 gallon plastic container with twist off lid
1 small diameter rigid tubing (that will fit into airline tubing)
air line tubing
1 ball valve for the air line tubing

take the cap off the plastic container drill a hole big enough for the rigid tubing to have a tight fit
then drill a hole big enough for the air line tubing to fit add kalk (desired amount) then add Rodi water mix let sit
this will work off a siphon the ball valve will sit on the end of the airline tubing which is attached to the rigid tubbing remember to cut to where it comes just above the white saturated part on the bottom the other air line tubing attached to the top of the container just blow into that to start the siphon and adjust the ball valve to the desired drip. and walla your done.

[lvsuckerfish]

Not how I was told. I just add the powder to my trashcan and have my aqualifter line from my ATO in it and it drips/tops off my evaporate water.

I saw a post where you had mentioned mixing the kalk then sucking water out of that for use and thought it was odd. But no I don't go that route just add and it settles on it own. And I have no problems with it. Whatever that is worth ;)

you are not getting the full benifits of the alk or you can also be getting whats needed for the system that would depend on what your test are sitting at. fully saturated Kalk will meausre a ph of I believe 12 or 14 I forgot which one.

[iap]

Eveything that I've read and been told is that you could add as much pickling lime to your top off resevoir but only so much can be saturated by your water. It can only take 2tblspn per gallon so if you added 5 tblspn per gallon it would only be a waste on your part of the pickling lime and you would see nothing ill. I've also been told yea once the stuff settles in the resevoir of course you don't want your tube in the bottom sucking up that junk but you don't need to stir your water. Once you put it in, that is that no stirring needed.

the way I've been told and done it's kept my water parameters pretty much stable.

[Narazbad]

I've also made a kalk doser out of short line iv tubing. As I say Will, when your not busy this weekend come over and I'll show you how it works and let you borrow the system.

[iap]

Also I'm confused.. So you only drip kalk in the evening. So is kalk and pickling lime two differnt things? Because with the pickling lime everyone just adds it to the ato resevoir and it adds all times thru out the day as your float valve dictates?

[lvsuckerfish]

Eveything that I've read and been told is that you could add as much pickling lime to your top off resevoir but only so much can be saturated by your water. It can only take 2tblspn per gallon so if you added 5 tblspn per gallon it would only be a waste on your part of the pickling lime and you would see nothing ill. I've also been told yea once the stuff settles in the resevoir of course you don't want your tube in the bottom sucking up that junk but you don't need to stir your water. Once you put it in, that is that no stirring needed.

the way I've been told and done it's kept my water parameters pretty much stable.

You are correct pickling lime kalk same thing yes kalk is I believe German for kalk and also it will only saturate to an end point adding more will only make less topping off the kalk. I never heard of never mixing it I am not sure who told you that how else will it mix it is a powder to saturate all the directions on kalk and readings on it will say mix it. An if you have low ph as this thread is about you would want to drip during the night when your ph is lowest. Check reefkeeping online search for kalk or pickling lime it will have all the info on there also


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[lvsuckerfish]

I Personally top off at night as when my Kalk is added to my system for the reasons above this will bring my night time Ph up. (guide as with all of reef keeping try to keep your params as stable as possible). I am within range day and night but at night I am at 8.1 during the day (lights on) i am at 8.3 when my klak kicks in I got to 8.19 early part of the light on period I am reading 8.35 this is per my Ph probe. you can top off when ever you want but with low Ph at night you want to have as stable as possible. there is no right or wrong way to top off(if your Ph is stable day and night) but within params during the day and running low it would only make sense to drip alk at night. not everyone adds at all times in the day and not everyone runs a float I am not sure how many run a float I run sensors and most folks i know run sensors to add top off water and most I know also have there top off on a timer just as a added safety devise to run certain times throughout the day. and also this is the first time i read of someone just adding kalk to a container and not mixing so I am not sure who everyone you are speaking of is? the folks i know that run kalk mix let sit or add to a kalk reactor and all of those have pumps or mixers in them. you can search those on line also I am not sure of one brand of a kalk reactor that doesn't have a mixing devise or some sort!

[lvsuckerfish]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/nftt/index.php

[tbone74]

Rickmartin posted a link in the old site referring to adding kalk directly to the ato res. When you refill the res, just the movement of the water mikes the powder enough to bring it to full saturation. When you refill the left over powder that has settled at the bottom mixes with the fresh water and again fully saturates it. I'm gonna try to find the article.

[tbone74]

rickmartin wrote:

" http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.php

This type of limewater system is the type that most often comes under fire for being prone to degradation problems by reaction with atmospheric carbon dioxide. In this type of system, limewater is made up once, and then allowed to sit unstirred for as long as it takes the delivery system to send it to the aquarium. Since this type of reservoir can deliver limewater to the aquarium for several weeks, many aquarists have incorrectly concluded that substantial potency is lost as the limewater degrades, and that such a system will fail."

Found on the old site:
http://lasvegasreefers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7091

[kentlighting]

ok so my Slime issue has now taken over the entire tank, it has gelled up another filter sock in a period of a day, all my media in my reactors looks like its suspended in zero gravity, and my display tank looks cloud. the whole system seems to have a chalky smell to it. what the **** is going on here? i did another water change tonight, i removed all the macro algae yesterday, im at a loss

[Narazbad]

o.O What time are you working tomorrow Will, want me to come over and see what we can figure out? Give me a call when you wake up if you like.

[RickMartin]

wow someone read my post....
Slime is either cynobacteria or dinoflaggalates. Either case the underlying problem is an abundance of nutrients. You need to re-evaluate your import/export system and adjust accordingly. Cyno can be treated with an antibacterial agent, which does nothing for the nutrient issue. Additional water movement will also be beneficial.

[kentlighting]

I called dave at beyond the reef today about the issue, his thoughts were this: to stop dosing anything for a few days, the cloudyness and chalk smell is most likely cause by precipitation from me adding PH+ directly to the sump instead of diluting it in some RO water first. the slime is probally from the corals, being in the low PH they are feeling "sick" and the slime is like them throwing up. So Im gonna run my skimmer wet (which it started to on its own when this slime showed up) get as much of the preciptates out as possible and see if the issues clear up on their own

[lvsuckerfish]

wow someone read my post....
Slime is either cynobacteria or dinoflaggalates. Either case the underlying problem is an abundance of nutrients. You need to re-evaluate your import/export system and adjust accordingly. Cyno can be treated with an antibacterial agent, which does nothing for the nutrient issue. Additional water movement will also be beneficial.

I came to figure that added flow and cyno will do diddly squat lol I have cyno right infront of a closed loop outlet and it is not budging at all. Nutrients and lighting I see as a better solution to the issue for cyno.



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[tbone74]

Chemclean is the best solution for cyno... Where as lighting and lack of nutrients are the best defense :)

[RickMartin]

The bad thing about using an antibacterial is that it will also kill beneficial bacteria. And still this is not really a solution, as it doesn't address the nutrient issue

[tbone74]

Chem clean is not an antibiotic. It works some other way, I'm no scientist so I cant tell you how, but when I used it in the past I checked Nitrates, Nitrites, and ammonia daily and there was no changes. I Honestly don't think my Bio filter was affected. Now the use of erythromycin, Don't use that stuff as it is an antibiotic. And I do agree that the most important thing is to keep your nutrients in check so you don't have to resort to such measures as adding chemicals to your system

[lvsuckerfish]

Chemclean is the best solution for cyno... Where as lighting and lack of nutrients are the best defense :)

I would say lights and nutrients are the cause of it chemiclean is a quick fix to the issue. But without solving the issues it will just come back


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[tbone74]

I would say lights and nutrients are the cause of it chemiclean is a quick fix to the issue. But without solving the issues it will just come back
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Thats what I was trying to say... Guess I should lay off the beers when I'm replying to posts! lol:rolleyes:

[iap]

From one of the chemistry gurus at RC

You don't want to mix the kalk water after you do the initial stirring to get it dissolve. Mixing afterwards will add more CO2 into the water and will lead to more calcium carbonate precipitation. This will make the kalk water less potent. Also you don't want to dose the nasty stuff at the bottom, so you want it to settle on the bottom. The nasty stuff contains contaminates like heavy metals (copper) you don't want in your tank. Your draw tube should be a couple inches off the bottom of your kalk tank to prevent dosing the precipitants.

A float switch only may allow too much kalk to be dosed at one time. It is best to use a dosing pump with a timer. This will also help prevent kalk overdoses that will raise your pH too high if the float switch sticks. This leads to snow storms, which you don't want.

Usually when you first start dosing kalk water, you mix around 1 teaspoon of kalk per 1 gallon of rodi water. If this doesn't meet alk demand, then you will need to increase the amount of kalk per gallon. After you reach 2 teaspoons of kalk per gallon, you will not be able to dissolve any more kalk per gallon. At that point you may need to dose a two-part as well.

[lvsuckerfish]

Reading what you just added is that with or with out a kalstirrer? as there is 2 methods to dose kalk. i being a stirrer the other gravity via doisng pump whichever...... even on thelinks I added it says that when going with the open container method. I add more so I am not adding every day 1 cup will last me 1 month or more. with my kalk reactor I know it will only saturate to a end point I an not arguing that point. also I agree with not adding the bottom muck as it will burn coral and cause a ph spike in the tank. I never said add the nice milky paste at the bottom. lol

btw the way in your post # 10 you stated not to stir it? but post # 28 your guru states to stir it? I am confused here lmao

[lvsuckerfish]

and if you have a glass of water and add a cup of sugar into the glass the water will only saturate so much sugar. no remove some of that water and add more water some of the sugar will again disappear as it is saturating the new water. over and over and over until the sugar is gone. same concept. I know there is a big difference betwwen the 2 but it is the same basics.

[Narazbad]

When I dose kalk, however infrequently that may be, I fill a 2 liter bottle with fresh water, shake it up, then start the drip through my tube, I have the drip so slow that it usually takes 12-36 hours to drain the bottle, so by the time it gets anywhere near a dose the kalk is settled again. I've put kalk in once in all the times I've used the bottle and I've had this thing set up for about 4 months now. Lol.

[iap]

when you add the powder to your resevoir you stir/mix it up. After that you don't need to restir the stuff like you do with your kalkstirrer.

[McIntosh]

So Kent, did you lay off for a while and did that do the trick? Are you still experiencing the bacterial bloom? I looked up Brightwell Aquatics pH+ and have to say I don't like the way Brightwell Aquatics posts thier ingredients. There are tons of inorganic carbonate salts. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonate). My guess is it is primarily Mg and Ca carbonate salts. Have you checked your Magnesium and Calcium levels?

Another item you may notice is that caulerpa "actually produce some nasty slime substance when you clip it or break it. Needless to say if you were not careful with how you pulled out half the caulerpa you could have produced quite a bit of that slime in the tank which would have been another irritant to your corals which could have caused "lots of slime". Another point I have noted when dosing vodka or other "carbon" sources, when you reach a certain point the bacteria bloom seems to be self promulgating and the "slime" starts coating everything. You only stop it by skimming really wet and doing water changes. Perhaps that is the problem in your tank.

Good luck.

[kentlighting]

My solution was this, dave @ BTR gave me these ideas so ill give credit where credit is deserved as he helped ALOT. what we think happened is the caulerpa went sexual and started releasing love juices into the tank. so i stopped dosing everything, i had done a few water changes so i did does superbac to the tank to help replace the good stuff that was lost. i skimmed really wet and for the final touch i put in water clarifier for two days. in two days the tank was perfectly clear the clarifier got rid of the nasty stuff irritating the corals. i also suffered threw the heat and opened my windows, that put my Ph right up to 8.2. And thats pretty much where i've been at since.